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#33 2016-09-05 19:16:36

ReemZ
Tester
From: .nl
Registered: 2015-03-01
Posts: 210

Re: Chakra brainstorm

cooper92 wrote:

A alternative software manger to pacman similar to what ubuntu and linux mint has would be a nice touch for the official chakra repositories.

Oh héll no. Don't touch pacman!
And if you mean a GUI, there are several.


If it no longer makes me curse, swear, explode, if I don't hate it at times, it means I no longer care about it...

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#34 2016-09-05 20:49:46

eyome
Member
Registered: 2010-06-24
Posts: 639
Website

Re: Chakra brainstorm

@ReemZ, but, the pacman replacement is already planned, you know (don't you?)

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#35 2016-09-05 20:51:58

ahjolinna
Tester
From: Suomi - Finland, Espoo
Registered: 2011-05-05
Posts: 353

Re: Chakra brainstorm

@cooper92, @ReemZ: pacman is going to be replaced with chakra's own akabei...but when? well thats a million dollar question...and why?


[img]https://www.gamingonlinux.com/signature.php?id=4127[/img]

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#36 2016-09-06 09:14:41

brikler
Member
From: deutschland
Registered: 2012-04-18
Posts: 620

Re: Chakra brainstorm

ReemZ wrote:
cooper92 wrote:

A alternative software manger to pacman similar to what ubuntu and linux mint has would be a nice touch for the official chakra repositories.

Oh héll no. Don't touch pacman!

+1
pacman is on of the reason why i am using chakra.

@cooper92
debian + *buntu have only one reliable package manager and this is apt but thy have different backend  for apt (aptitude, synaptic, muon, etc....)

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#37 2016-09-06 14:36:01

ReemZ
Tester
From: .nl
Registered: 2015-03-01
Posts: 210

Re: Chakra brainstorm

ahjolinna wrote:

@cooper92, @ReemZ: pacman is going to be replaced with chakra's own akabei...but when? well thats a million dollar question...and why?

I know. When? Never, I hope. Why? I don't give a fuck.
Don't. Touch. Pacman.


If it no longer makes me curse, swear, explode, if I don't hate it at times, it means I no longer care about it...

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#38 2016-09-07 11:22:17

tetris4
Communicator
From: NL, CY
Registered: 2009-12-11
Posts: 5,158
Website

Re: Chakra brainstorm

Of course akabei will never reach the stable repositories unless we are happy with its performance and the extra features it offers to users compared to pacman. But there is still a long way to go until that milestone.
If you have tested akabei and follow its development and there are things you don't like you are welcome to share your feedback in a contributing way.
Fwiw, the plan is to also have pakabei available, an akabei interface that uses pacman commands for those that love the pacman switches.

We will try to discuss all the suggestions posted here at the meeting (in 2 weeks time), and I will try to respond to everything after that.


You can help improve Chakra by getting involved or donating!

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#39 2016-09-07 17:33:09

ReemZ
Tester
From: .nl
Registered: 2015-03-01
Posts: 210

Re: Chakra brainstorm

I just don't get this constant need to reinvent the wheel...


If it no longer makes me curse, swear, explode, if I don't hate it at times, it means I no longer care about it...

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#40 2016-09-12 21:30:19

ericjs
Member
From: Boston, MA
Registered: 2013-11-07
Posts: 348

Re: Chakra brainstorm

I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but personally I would love to see a discussion on the Chakra boards about why Akabei's eventual replacement of pacman is desired, or, if there are dissenters, why it might not be.

I've been on Chakra for almost 3 years now, and to me it's always been some part of Chakra's backlog of plans from before I used Chakra, that only old timers really knew much about, with some notes in the wiki being the only inkling I've been able to get about why. There's not been a real discussion of it or explanation of it to users in the time I've been here.

The best I've ever been able to gather, it has mainly been about performance, which personally I've never seen as a problem. Personally the sort of things I would consider worthwhile would be things like like transactional integrity (no way to get an inconsistent batch of updates, if say, only half of your mirrors were synced), or the ability to choose which batch of updates to get (like update to a batch that came down last week that you haven't gotten yet yet, without getting the batch that just came down today).

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#41 2016-09-12 23:05:00

ericjs
Member
From: Boston, MA
Registered: 2013-11-07
Posts: 348

Re: Chakra brainstorm

ReemZ wrote:

I just don't get this constant need to reinvent the wheel...

As a software developer myself, I get it. Existing wheels always have some flaws, and as an engineer you say to yourself "that could be made better if you just did such-and-such". And building wheels is, frankly, fun.

I don't disparage "it's fun" as a legitimate reason, since those who maintain distros do so at least partially as a hobby, and I consider it in my interest as a user that it continue to be fun for the distro devs.

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#42 2016-09-29 22:38:37

tetris4
Communicator
From: NL, CY
Registered: 2009-12-11
Posts: 5,158
Website

Re: Chakra brainstorm

Hey everyone,

Am happy to report that all the suggestions raised in this thread were discussed in the Chakra Shinding 2016. Here are our responses:

  • Minimal ISO > This is a long standing request. Chakra developers already implemented an option for netinstall to Calamares, so this should be available in following releases.

  • Live ISO feature requests FS#964 and FS#1414 > These are useful enhancements so they will be implemented on following releases.

  • Manjaro Settings Manager > Even though useful software, it is complicated to implement with our current resources as it relies on many Manjaro specific dependencies. If anyone is willing to port this or work on something similar for Chakra, we would love to hear from you!

  • Mirror sorting application > We do not want for this to run automatically, as it will interfere with custom settings. Users can always use rankmirrors to check. New mirrors are always announced on social media for visibility.

  • Rolling nvidia-testing driver > This is an overkill with current resources and not in accordance with our current goals. We should instead try to stick to the plan to update drivers 3-4 times per year.

  • Trying out 5 different (KDE-based) distros to see what we miss > This is actually a great idea to place our distribution in better context, but probably hard to implement as most of us have very customized systems that we use for work/uni etc. We do test from time to time the live ISOs to see how the installer/package management etc works or for any specialized applications. Feedback from users is always welcome!

  • Audit support in the kernel > Not even Arch seems to ship this, and it seems like only e4rat would benefit from this. We think that if you have valid reasons to need audit, you should be in a position to build your own kernel.

  • Kapudan > Even though we really want to reintroduce it, Kapudan was not worked on for some time now since KDE hasn't ported the python bindings to Frameworks 5 yet. However there was a breakthrough during the meeting and it seems we will be able to reship it soon with a port to Qt5 that doesn't depend on the specific bindings.

  • Pacman output for the target repos > Repositories do not really matter that much to users, unless you are strict about getting things from lib32 or gtk repositories. You can use pacman -Sii to check specific packages or pacman -Sl testing to check what is available in testing. You can also make an upstream feature request to Arch to add this option to the  'checkupdates' script. Akabei could potentially sort updates per repo, but we need to wait for that.

  • BFQ I/O scheduler > We prefer to ship the kernel as vanilla as possible to accommodate most user cases and keep compiling it simple. One should also consider why this was never approved by upstream.

  • Holding partitions like f2fs through installations > This should probably be reported as a feature request to KDE for kpmcore. Also more feedback on what you are trying to achieve would help us respond accordingly.

  • Light Desktop Theme > This is indeed a good idea. The current heritage theme could easily manipulated for this. We just need someone to spend the time to do it. If you are interested on working on this we would love to hear from you!

  • minibackup > This is now obsolete with the switch to Plasma 5 and it has been removed from our repos.

  • Software store > Once akabei is introduced, the plan is to use Discover as a software store, mostly for applications and games. We do want to use and contribute to upstream projects when possible. We can port Octopi for more detailed package search for advanced users (check libraries etc). There will always be akabei to be used from a CLI and of course pakabei which will be a frontend which implements pacman style of switches.

I sure hope we did not miss anything and that our responses are satisfactory. We cannot unfortunately keep everyone happy, as we have our minds set on reaching the goals we have for Chakra, and we need to consider our available resources.
As always, if you do care on helping us improve the Chakra experience, feel free to contact us and get involved.

And of course, keep those ideas coming!


You can help improve Chakra by getting involved or donating!

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#43 2016-09-30 12:50:07

Frosch
Member
From: Sion, Switzerland
Registered: 2015-09-08
Posts: 85

Re: Chakra brainstorm

Thanks for your feedback  smile


Pavilion dv6 · Core i5 · 4GB RAM · GeForce GT 320M

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#44 2016-09-30 15:39:12

brikler
Member
From: deutschland
Registered: 2012-04-18
Posts: 620

Re: Chakra brainstorm

tetris4 wrote:
  • Audit support in the kernel > Not even Arch seems to ship this, and it seems like only e4rat would benefit from this. We think that if you have valid reasons to need audit, you should be in a position to build your own kernel.

  • Kapudan > Even though we really want to reintroduce it, Kapudan was not worked on for some time now since KDE hasn't ported the python bindings to Frameworks 5 yet. However there was a breakthrough during the meeting and it seems we will be able to reship it soon with a port to Qt5 that doesn't depend on the specific bindings.

1) without audit support is e4rat useless an should be dropped from our repository.
2) i have heard kaOS shipped a "first run wizard" with there last release...my be we could use this wizard...

KaOS is a rolling release distribution which focuses on providing a polished desktop experience using the KDE Plasma desktop. The latest snapshot of KaOS features a few new features to help set up and customise the distribution. "A new addition for KaOS is a first run wizard. It will run on the newly installed system and enables with just a few clicks to adjust mouse behaviour, menu launcher, desktop theme, used wallpaper, colour scheme, widget style, window decoration and virtual desktops used. With one click this Wizard will also link to KaOS Documentation and all contact info. Another first on this ISO is a new tool to write ISO files to USB. Not only does IsoWriter write to USB it also gives the option to recover your USB stick after using it for an ISO, something that regular dd copy or the previously used Imagewriter were not able to do." The Plasma desktop and base system have also received updates and the details are available in the project's news post.

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20160919#news

Last edited by brikler (2016-09-30 15:39:38)

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#45 2016-09-30 19:35:06

tetris4
Communicator
From: NL, CY
Registered: 2009-12-11
Posts: 5,158
Website

Re: Chakra brainstorm

I think KaOS ships Kaptan developed by PiSiLinux. We are aware of it, but we believe kapudan can be much more feature full, so we prefer to use it if possible.


You can help improve Chakra by getting involved or donating!

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